At a moment when intersex people’s existence is under siege — and in a U.S. administration bent on recognizing only two genders — “Ponyboi” feels even timelier now than when it first premiered at Sundance in 2024.
“There’s no role model that I have to look up to other than other incredible trans or queer creators, but for intersex people, that hasn’t happened yet,” star/writer River Gallo told IndieWire. “To be pioneering in that fact, I don’t know, it’s just scary and emotional.”
IndieWire caught up with Gallo and star Dylan O’Brien ahead of the neo-noir thriller’s New York City premiere on June 24. “[Director] Esteban Arango came first, and we wanted to get someone who had feature experience,” Gallo told IndieWire when asked what got Arango and Dylan O’Brien on board.
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“At the time, I was like ‘I want to direct this,’ but it was the first time I was leading a feature, so I [wanted] to focus on anchoring my performance, first and foremost,” Gallo continued. “He just had a way to strategize how to visually represent all the different stories that were being told — the sort of New Jersey gritty story, that fantastic dream-like quality of Ponyboi’s mind, and he was just such an incredibly loving and caring person. When we were finding actors for Vinnie, it was actually one of my managers who pitched Dylan, and it’s crazy” — Gallo turned to O’Brien — “because I actually wasn’t really familiar with you at all.” The two laughed before O’Brien said sarcastically, “I haven’t heard this before from any filmmaker.”
“It worked to my advantage because I just felt like it was like a friend,” Gallo continued. “Being a first-time filmmaker and actor, that just made me feel so at ease. Dylan’s love and care and passion for the movie, for my vision, for me, for the intersex community, for queer people — it was an instant click and one that I feel so blessed and lucky that Dylan said yes.”
Following a drug deal that goes sour, Gallo’s character Ponyboi is forced to run from the New Jersey mob. With both stars being from Jersey themselves, did “The Sopranos” influence the story?
“Of course,” Gallo said. “It’s funny because in ‘The Sopranos,’ the Bada Bing Club was shot outside of the strip club that I would drive by every day to go to the mall. It’s actually the Satin Dolls Club in real life. In making the film, I started watching ‘The Sopranos’ for the first time. What an incredible show. That’s Jersey representation.”
As for other influences, David Lynch has been in the mix, with O’Brien wearing a “Twin Peaks” T-shirt during our interview. Lana Del Rey’s “Ride” music video also comes to mind. I asked if this hunch was correct. “That was on my mood board, it’s like you’re seeing my soul,” Gallo said.
“The real intention of the movie was just to make me feel like I was in a Lana music video,” they continued. “It’s perfect. Lana’s work is another one.” We tied the moment into the Bruce Springsteen of it all, where Gallo and Murray Bartlett’s character sing a cover of his “Pony Boy” in the film. “[Lana] talks about Bruce Springsteen being influential in her work and, you know, she even references Bruce Springsteen in the song ‘American.’ She sings, ‘Springsteen is the king, don’t you think?’”
As for O’Brien, he’s coming fresh off two back-to-back turns at Sundance, first with this film, and most recently with “Twinless,” which premiered this past January. Starring in two queer stories just a year apart, we asked the actor what exactly he’s looking for as he signs onto new projects. “I’m looking for originality. I’m looking for new voices and filmmakers that I want to be a part of supporting and championing,” he said.
“If I can challenge myself as an actor and find things that I haven’t done before, I feel like that kind of covers it,” he continued. “These were two projects that sort of checked all those boxes. It’s like an intangible energy thing as well, like, the energy felt right. You go with your gut at some point. I try not to overthink things. These two projects in particular have been and will be two of the most special projects of my career. I’m so glad that I was fortunate enough for them to come my way.”
This film has been in the works for nearly a decade, and Gallo is so thrilled for people to finally get the chance to see what they have long been working on. “I hope that people see in the movie that you don’t have to be a perfect version of yourself, or you don’t have to have it all figured out yet,” they said. “You can be as bold as who you are in the moment, even with the things that you’re still figuring out. I’m so proud of this movie. We’re at this moment in queer cinema, and I think ‘Twinless’ does this incredibly, where we’re really pushing the boundaries of what a queer story is.”
Intersex stories are rare onscreen, and Gallo hopes the film shifts the needle on representation, saying now is the time to “have an intersex person lead a movie, a story, a narrative, a conversation. The resolution of what I was aiming towards in the conclusion of ‘Ponyboi’ is that it’s still kind of really messy, it’s still unclear. To this day, I don’t feel completely certain about my gender. I happen to look at this to present how I am right now, but I’m just very attuned to the fact that as an intersex person who lacks so much visibility, in many ways, I’m creating the thing that I didn’t see in front of me”
They added, “I just feel like I had no other choice other than to bust that door open, because it’s going to matter to so many people, not just intersex people, but anyone who has felt like they’re just not sure of who they are. I feel like that’s a very human and universal story. I think so many intersex people still can’t see themselves in culture, so I hope that this movie can illuminate a reality.”
Earlier this year, O’Brien wrapped Sam Raimi’s survival horror film “Send Help.” “I can’t wait to see it, it’s a wacky swing,” he said. “It’s a version of these boxes that I like to check in terms of the originality and fresh aspects in a studio space, which I thought was really exciting. With Sam, how few and far between his directorial choices are when he decides to step back into that chair, I found really exciting. And Rachel [McAdams], [she’s] an icon and generational talent and somebody I’ve always looked up to. It’s a bold swing, so we’ll see if it works. I hope it’s like a wacky fun, fucking crazy ride.”
Raimi, of course, has directed multiple films set in and adjacent to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, most recently with “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.” Would O’Brien ever want to join the MCU? “I mean, listen, I’m always like ever changing as well, so maybe in a decade or two. But as of this moment now, I guess my answer would be that I have little interest in dabbling in that space.”
“Ponyboi” is based on actor/writer Gallo’s 2019 short film, which won the New York Short jury grand prize at NewFest31. Gallo reprises the title role for the feature adaptation, which Gallo also writes and produces along with director Esteban Arango and co-stars Dylan O’Brien, Victoria Pedretti, Murray Bartlett, and Indya Moore.
“Ponyboi” premieres in theaters June 27 from FOX Entertainment Studios’ Tideline banner.
